#nondisordered system

[sirenium]

If your trauma caused you to split, then you were traumatized 'enough' to be traumagenic/have DID, OSDD or what have you. Trauma isn't always from a parent: it can be peer bullying/shunning, sibling abuse, near death experiences, experiencing death of a loved one or even a stranger, medical trauma, etc.

I will go one step further and say that if your system experience isn't purely traumagenic, and you're pushed out of supposed safe spaces because of it, don't feel pressured to change the labels that feel right for y'all. I have half a heart to not post this in traumagenic tags, because SO MANY traumagenic systems are anti endo it seems. But mixed origin systems exist, endo systems exist, non-disordered traumagenic systems exist, etc and plurality is such a large umbrella of different experiences (even yours!).

You're doing nothing wrong by existing.

[draxons-farm]

Some dipshit really said “look up highway dissociation” to try and say dissociation “happens to everyone every day”.

Y’all really do like butchering words to make them fit into your narrative huh? Cuz ain’t no way you’re trying to compare your brain filtering out background noise so you can focus on more important things to forgetting days, weeks, months or even years of your life to protect yourself from severe trauma.

One of those things happens to everyone. The other only happens to people with severe trauma disorders and/or someone going through something traumatic. Comparing a normal brain function to something only disordered brains do and trying to say they’re exactly the same is not only stupid, but ableist.

Shut the fuck up.

[sotiredofendos]

One thing I won’t ever understand is the endos who claim not to have dissociation or identity confusion, or that it’s not necessary to be “plural” or have a system/alters. I mean this genuinely, what the fuck do they think alters are ? Alters ARE dissociated self states, alters ARE identity confusion. Alters aren’t just these people running around in your head, they are parts of you that are dissociated. They aren’t souls who can posses you, they are you, they are all part of your brain — separated by dissociation, amnesia and identity confusion. Without that, there is absolutely no difference between you and another alter in your system, besides just deciding to call yourself by a different name and identity at certain times. Is that what endos are ??

Like actually wtf do endos think alters are

[nyctohyloph0bia]

Thread of experts saying that endogenic and nondisordered systems are valid: A repost.

originally posted by @/jsheaforrest on Twitter, Oct 3 2023. This is a repost so that others can view it if they do not have Twitter.

First off, we have the Plurality chapter of the book Transgender Mental Health by Dr. Eric Yarbrough, Distinguished Fellow of the American Psychiatric, published by the APA in 2018 :

Important excerpts from that chapter: "Being plural, or having two or more people existing in one body or space, is just one part of the diagnosis of dissociative identity disorder. Many people who are plural do not experience distress from the existence of others within themselves."

Since distress/dysfunction are essential for a diagnosis of dissociative identity disorder, the implication here is that there's plurals who don't have DID. "However, although dissociative identity disorder and plurality are frequently associated with trauma, there are those who are plural and report no history of trauma. The case presentation in this chapter describes someone with severe trauma, but this is not a definitive or universal reason for the existence of plurality."

Next we have "Dissociation in Trauma: A New Definition and Comparison with Previous Formulations," published in the Journal of Trauma and Dissociation by Dr's Nijenhuis and Van Der Hart, two of the authors of the theory of structural dissociation.

The key part of this section is at the beginning where it says, "Our definition of dissociation pertains to a division of the personality in the context of trauma. We are aware that this division may also occur in hypnosis and mediumship, that several other definitions of dissociation also address these other contexts, and that there are some indications that dissociation in these other contexts is also best understood as a division of personality."

Source: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21667387/

Sci-hub link: https://sci-hub.usualwant.com/10.1080/15299732.2011.570592

Next we have the ICD-11, a diagnostic manual written by the World Health Organization, with the latest edition being from spring of 2022. In its entry on DID, it uses "distinct personality states" to refer to what it also calls "dissociative identities."

In the DID entry's Boundaries With Normality section, it says the following:

"The presence of two or more distinct personality states does not always indicate the presence of a mental disorder. In certain circumstances (e.g., as experienced by ‘mediums’ or other culturally accepted spiritual practitioners) the presence of multiple personality states is not experienced as aversive and is not associated with impairment in functioning. A diagnosis of Dissociative Identity Disorder should not be assigned in these cases." Note that the text says "eg" meaning "for example", therefore it is not saying that it is ONLY those.

Next is the DSM-V-TR, which also came out in spring of 2022. In the differential diagnosis section of the PTSD entry, it says the following:

"Dissociative disorders. Dissociative amnesia, dissociative identity disorder, and depersonalization-derealization disorder may or may not be preceded by exposure to a traumatic event or may or may not have co-occurring PTSD symptoms. When full PTSD criteria are also met, however, the PTSD “with dissociative symptoms” subtype should be considered."

Lastly, we have an interview w/ Dr Richard Loewenstein, who is lead editor of the DSM's section on dissociative disorders, has written over 100 papers mostly on trauma and dissociation and been referenced in 100s more, and used to run a trauma and dissociative disorders center.

In an interview with radio journalist Laura Klivens, talking about our system and having been told our origins, he said what's on the screenshot below.

Source: https://gimletmedia.com/shows/reply-all/49hr6k (the link is broken, it redirects to Spotify, all gimlet media links do. If I find the episode i'll put it here.)

"RICHARD: What you’re describing is much more somebody who is emitting symptoms consistent with Dissociative Identity Disorder and, um, you know, without interviewing her, um, I would wonder if that’s … what’s occurring and this is--creates a kind of, um, way that she can experience herself without distress. But again, if she is not distressed, by definition it’s not a disorder."

Continuing on in that episode, Laura says the following:"

"LAURA: I didn’t just talk to Lowenstein, I also talked to four other mental health professionals--both psychiatrists and psychologists--from these really reputable institutions. And they echoed what Lowenstein said. They said if there’s not distress, it’s not a mental illness--it just doesn’t fit any of the DSM definitions."

So. All these sources, from the American Psychiatric Association, World Health Organization, the two major diagnostic manuals used worldwide, and experts who study and treat DID/OSDD-1.

They all support the idea of nondisordered and endogenic systems. We've yet to see a single source from any major institution or expert saying that endogenic and nondisordered systems are impossible. Thank you for reading.

This is the end of the original thread. The thread picks up again on Jan 8, 2024.

New addition: a recent study (September 12, 2023) specifically on endogenic and nondisordered plurality.

source: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/cpp.2910

"Dissociative identity disorder and depersonalization–derealization have attracted research and clinical interest, facilitating greater understanding. However, little is known about the experience of multiplicity of self outside of traumagenic or illness constructs. Consequently, this systematic review explored how people identifying as having multiple selves conceptualize their experiences and identity."

It picks up once again, on Jan 17, 2024.

Another addition, from an article on Psychology Today's website published in September of 2021.

source: https://psychologytoday.com/us/conditions/dissociative-identity-disorder-multiple-personality-disorder

Key points: "Why some people develop dissociative identity disorder is not entirely understood...Several studies suggest that DID is more common among close biological relatives of persons who also have the disorder than in the general population."

[moonpool-system]

Show your identities & pride with these name + pronoun pins for identification & fronting!

[pt: Show your identities & pride with these name + pronoun pins for identification & fronting!]

With customizable name, colors, & pronoun sets per pin, these make it easy to communicate who you are when you need to, without breaking up the conversation. Wear as many as you may need at a time! Order as many as you like here and let your identities be known!

We worked so hard on these, and have been using them ourselves for a while before putting them up!! While they can be bought individually and used by anybody, these are crafted by plurals with the intent to help plurals/multiples be recognized as they wish!!

[ratkingsjournal]

I've seen a lot of aesthetic looking simply plural custom fronts, and I felt like I wanted to share mine.

Half of these don't even have a pfp. We tried to make them all black, and then we. Just didn't.

Half of our alters profiles are just names, maybe pronouns, and POSSIBLY a small description. Pictures can come at any time if they do at all

The fields are almost NEVER done.

What's worse is I saw someone downloaded octocon. WE'VE USED SIMPLY PLURAL FOR 3 YEARS.

Anyway yeah. Dont feel bad if your simply plural isn't perfect.

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I stg the archive feature is my favorite thing about SP rn,

–👾

[possessed-pack]

Love to all of the tulpa systems or systems with tulpas regardless of their origin. No matter your system origin, you having a tulpa--even if it's just one or if there's many--does not discredit your system. It does not make you fake. Systems of any origin can have tulpas, systems that are disordered or have DID/OSDD/other dissociative disorders can have tulpas--and it does not make you fake. Your origin shouldn't dictate your validity--if you experience it, it's valid and real.

[ecos-syscourse]

we find the idea that nondisordered = endogenic and CDD = traumagenic rlly stupid and close Tumblr in pure disappointment every single time we see it

[draxons-farm]

Just saw a pro endo say with their full chest that being anti endo was like saying that trans people are delusional.

As a trans person, I’m gonna need y’all to stop comparing my medical mental illness to being trans. It’s literally transphobic.

They also said it’s like saying therians aren’t real. Therian is a spiritual belief(I think?) so that’s not comparable either.

They are literally out here trying desperately to call us bigots because we want them to stop roleplaying our mental illness. This is only succeeding in making them look even more like bigots.

I’m so fucking tired of this.

[sotiredofendos]

I just want to put out a reminder for anyone who identifies as anti-endo, or is against endogenic systems (as an anti-endo myself):

Be against the action, not the person. What most of us dislike is the ableism and misinformation that is caused by the endogenic community. We shouldn’t be hating the individuals, simply as individuals. We should be purely against ableism and misinformation. I truly, personally believe a lot of endos are a victim of this movement as well. I think there are many people who self-identify as endogenic, who truly do suffer from a CDD, who believe they don’t have one because their trauma “wasn’t bad enough”. They believe the misinformation that if you don’t have this world shattering trauma, you don’t have DID/OSDD, but instead you’re “endogenic”. This means a person actually suffering from a CDD won’t ever get the help they need, and will chronically feel invalidated about their trauma. I also think there are a lot of people who identify as endogenic who have no disorder at all, who think they’re systems because regular experiences are being made to seem abnormal. Teens struggling to figure themselves out ? Oh, you must be multiple people. Having different personalities around different groups of people, or at different times ? Oh, that must be alters. Being forgetful ? Oh, must be amnesia because you’re a system. I think we should try to show some compassion to these people. A lot of them are truly mislead by the notion this absolutely anyone can be a system.

[ratkingsmuseum]

Guys I get that rats are cool and all, but- I have found myself following and liking posts that are made by people who have rat in their username, and people who have rat in their username liking my posts and following me.

The rats are taking over.

Should I be scared?

Should we form a cult?

Are rats really popular in mental health spaces and I just didn't know??

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I love people with rat usernames <3

– 🐞,❤️‍🔥,👾

[moonpool-system]

Headmate Roles: Outer System Manager & Inner System Manager

[Headmate Roles: Outer System Manager & Inner System Manager]

We've been using these terms for a while and wanted to finalize them in a post!!

Outer System Manager / Outer Manager - A subtype of system manager that deals in management in relation to the outerworld and how the system interacts with it. An outer system manager often includes being in charge of tracking member count and fronting schedules (often via apps such as simplyplural or journaling), tracking system hobbies and fronting triggers, perhaps even summoning members to front, and/or more. An outer manager is typically a frequent fronter of the system.

Inner System Manager / Inner Manager - A subtype of system manager that deals in management of the system internally, in relation to system functions that occur out of front and/or innerworld management. An inner system manager may manage and catalogue innerworld functions, keep watch of members and inner places that require upkeep or assistance, interact with and bring messages from non-fronting members, bring members to the fronting room, and/or more. An inner manager typically resides primarily outside of front.

We hope others find the terms useful!

[purpleflameb0i]

Me when I remember that being dissociated 24/7, unable to properly register most things around me as real, so disconnected from my body I don’t notice sensations and pain and etc most of the time, and basically being on autopilot 24/7 is actually not normal and is from a severe dissociative disorder:

D:

-Polkadot (he/they/neos)

[orangesodasystem]

Accidentally fronted this early afternoon and sound something very out of character around our mother, who doesn't know about us being a system. I was feeling very tense and on edge and said something a bit too rude than the host (Soda) would of said. She was briefly upset with us, but only because she's not having a good day. Oops, I guess....

[ratkingsjournal]

Me, sitting at a bus stop. Minding my own business:

😮‍💨 man, I hope I don't pass out

A random guy riding a bike:

🤨

🫵😯

🫵😃 oh, a terrorist!

Then he just rides away-

Was it the keffiyeh I was wearing? Was it because I was wearing a mask? Or perhaps it was the fact that I'm a—

✨blue haired liberal™️✨

[the-changelings]

i love you DID/OSDD systems who dont remember their trauma

i love you DID/OSDD systems who dont have trauma

i love you DID/OSDD systems who remember their trauma

i love you DID/OSDD systems who have known about your system for a long time

i love you DID/OSDD systems who just found out they are systems

i love you DID/OSDD systems who have found help in therapy

i love you DID/OSDD systems who prefer to go it alone

i love you DID/OSDD systems who don’t have access to therapy

i love you DID/OSDD systems who are open about being plural

i love you DID/OSDD systems who are in the closet

i love you queer DID/OSDD systems

i love you DID/OSDD systems who have been diagnosed

i love you DID/OSDD systems who don’t want a diagnosis

i love you DID/OSDD systems who aren’t able to be diagnosed right now

i love you DID/OSDD systems. i see you and i am so happy we found community. there are more of us than many think, and we are worthy of being heard.

take care of yourselves today